Cleaning records for casks/kegs

Following the launch of our Cleaning & Maintenance records feature, we’ve had a few requests to allow better handling of cask & keg cleaning records. I thought it was best to split this specific request off the original announcement thread, so we could gather feedback from the community on how best to implement this.

We’ve two main schools of thought on this. One involves detailed records of individual casks/kegs and the other a label printing approach, see below for the ideas, and we’d appreciate your feedback.

Option 1 - detailed records and management in Breww

  1. Breww to automatically manage your equipment for casks and kegs to give you a piece of “equipment” for each non-smallpack container type (e.g. Pin, Firkin, 30l Keg, 50l Keg, etc). These would be automatically created & updated by Breww when you manage your container types without you needing to manage the equipment itself (like with Vessels and Brewing Systems). We did consider just one “cask” and one “keg” equipment, rather than one per container type, but think splitting Cask into Pin, Firkin, etc gives you more flexibility.
  2. You can then manage cleaning process, schedules and records that are linked to the above equipment, such as a clean of Firkins.
  3. The cleaning record is initially simply linked to the container type (e.g. Firkin) and not the individual containers (F001, F002, etc) themselves. The thinking here is that on a practical level, you’d set about the task of cleaning Firkins, but not necessarily know for sure which individual Firkins will be cleaned in this session.
  4. When managing the cleaning record, you’ll then be able to add Firkins to the record so that Breww can safely record for you which individual Firkins were cleaned. This can be done by individually entering their codes (e.g. F001) or by asking Breww to add all currently “dirty” Firkins to the record in one go.
  5. This would mean that Breww would then need to start to track the clean/dirty state for all casks & kegs (in the same way that we do for filled/empty/in-trade). We’d expect to mark a container as dirty when it comes back from a customer (unless it comes back still full), and we’d prevent you from racking beer into a dirty container. Obviously completing the cleaning process would make them as clean again.
  6. The entire feature of cask/keg cleaning tracking can be switch on/off so that you can continue to use Breww exactly as you do now, without needing to manage the clean state of individual containers. By default this feature would be off.

We’re trying to think of a good way of Breww tracking which containers are clean and which are dirty for you, but without you needing to specifically enter/scan each individual one (through the use of the “all dirty” button), but still giving you the flexibility to do a few containers at once, or an “all apart from a few” without too much manual data entry.

A significant potential downside to this approach is that it seems quite plausible that on occasions, you might clean a number of casks/kegs, but fail to enter a handful of them to Breww, so Breww would think they were dirty and prevent you using them for racking when you can clearly see that they are clean. I fear that trying to be as regimented as this will cause headaches with the practicabilities… which is where option 2 comes in…


Option 2 - simple records with label printing to track

Another option completely, would be to never tell Breww which containers were cleaned in any given cleaning session, but be able to enter a quantity cleaned and this to generate a set of labels that can be printed and stuck onto the cask/keg confirming when it was last cleaned, by whom and a reference back to the cleaning record (maybe with a QR code to scan). Bullet points 1, 2 & 3 on option 1 above would still apply. Breww wouldn’t be able to manage the clean/dirty state or prevent you filling a dirty container with new beer, but give you the tools to manage this yourselves with the cleaning records & stickers, and potentially save you a lot of admin time (and hassle when Breww’s cleaning state for a cask/keg is out of sync with reality).

Would this give you good enough records for SALSA and other accreditations? This approach would probably be less work for you on a weekly basis, and it’s also less for us to build and manage, so this could be the better option all around. We could also complete the build for this sooner.


We’d love to hear your thoughts on the above before we start building anything, so we can make sure that what we build covers as many use-cases as possible. Please reply below with your comments. If you think we’re completely on the wrong track or have another idea completely, don’t be afraid to say!

Luke

Hi Luke,

I certainly think a system to remove paperwork from cask cleaning would be great.

We have put our heads together here and think that if you had a ‘type of clean’ per different container you could vary the clean requirements for each container type.

In terms of tracking/recording the clean, if you could have a tab on the app so you could select the type of container you are cleaning, so it recognises what clean you are carrying out. Then if you scan the permanent label it would know what clean has been carried out on that particular cask, and obviously on scanning the container you are confirming it was cleaned as per the cleaning process instructions.
Not being able to scan an incorrect clean to different container types would be useful as they may vary.
It may also be useful to have a notes section for each cask in case of any visual defects? So if one is damaged/extremely soiled/dented may be good to include this so we could see the condition of casks.

It would then be good to be able to generate a report for cask cleaning including, who carried out the cleaning (by seeing who scanned), each particular cask that was cleaned by permanent label number, the date/time it was cleaned, and I don’t know if this could then lead into the racked date so we could see how long they are sat cleaned before racking?
I’m sure this would be able to all be linked into the individual container profiles?

I hope this makes sense to you all! If not please do drop any queries/questions.

Thanks.

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Thanks, Kieran, for your detailed thoughts here - this is really useful insight and I like what you’re suggesting.

If anyone else has anything to add to this, please let us know. And if you’d find this useful, please give this a vote with the button in the top-left.

Hi Luke,
I was wondering if there had been any development on the cleaning of casks and kegs for cleaning records?
Cheers,
Andy

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Hi Andy,

There’s no update to report on this yet. We’re working hard to improve Breww all the time, but with multiple requests coming in every day, it takes quite a bit of keeping up with!

If you vote for this request, that will help push it up the priory list too (use the button in the top-left).

We will always post an update on the thread if there’s been any news, so keep an eye on the thread for updates. You can also make sure you’re subscribed to notifications by using the button with a :bell: in it on the right of the thread. It looks a bit like this:

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Cheers!

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any updates on this please Luke

No, sorry, Martin. We will always post an update on the thread if there’s been any news.

It’s worth mentioning that we do think this would go nicely with Spot check of casks/kegs by scanning them on the mobile app - show info, allow taking notes, ullaging, returning, etc so we might build both together.

Hi all,

my suggestion for tracking this is that when a keg is scanned back into the brewery, it shows how many rotations it has done. Perhaps we could set a level ourselves too where the scanner flashes up an alert.

Eg scan keg, Breww app says ‘keg returned, this keg has done X rotations’ If I set an alert for 10 rotations, perhaps the screen goes red or something to show this keg has hit a set number to be alerted on.

2 Likes

Hi All,
Is the cask cleaning topic now effectively dead? Given that it has been knocking around for 4 years or so, is it too hard a nut to crack?
Merry Christmas and hoping Santa might bring this fix, gift-wrapped or plain.
Cheers,
Nick

It’s not dead; it’s just that the list of requests is gigantic and growing every day despite us having implemented over 400 community feature requests already. We will absolutely get to this one day; we just haven’t yet; I’m sorry.

We’d love to have this in place for you for Xmas, but even if we dropped everything and started this today (which sadly we cannot), it wouldn’t be ready in time. But don’t worry, Santa works all year round at Breww and brings gifts every week of the year.

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Tracking cleaning of kegs (containers) or brewery assets is very important to a brewery and knowing the status of the kegs is also super important.

In this description I use ‘kegs’, essentially this term is interchangeable and can be used for any re-usable container such as casks, kegs, etc. It may also be extendable to other assets, (pumps, CO2, Jockey boxes etc) that also require tracking, cleaning and status updates with some additional thought.

We currently use a third party application to track kegs and badly want to move to only Breww and to drop the third party tool. The ability to drop a third party tracking package without losing functionality adds value to Breww, strengthens the value proposition of Breww and reduces complexity in operations when one system can do multiple functions.

Note that with minimal extra work much of this functionality would be usable to

Containers would need a Boolean for ‘re-usable’ that is independent of returnable or not. For example, cans would not be re-usable, casks probably would be but some are not, kegs are re-usable and many breweries recover and clean their rental kegs that may technically not be classified as returnable, but in reality are. Keep the re-usability independent of the container classification. Similarly, keep the keg status options independent of returnable or non-returnable kegs. All containers tracked by the brewery should be able to use the functionality.

When kegs come back to the brewery from a customer, they should be received as empty or a product return. Breww already has this however the status tracking is currently missing.

Kegs should have a ‘status’ that includes;

  • ‘Filled’: Automatically set when filled or re-packaged into. When a container is created, the ability to manually set this, or not, should be a user permission. I want our brewer to be able to manually fill a cask or CO2 container but not our cellar crew.
  • Empty-Dirty: Automatically set when returned, or product dumped, May be set manually.
  • Empty-Clean: Semi-automatically set when cleaned. Requires user confirmation for the set of kegs where the status is being changed to clean.
  • Missing: If a missing keg gets a scan, option appears to classify it to another status. Default is ‘Empty-Dirty’
  • At Customer: The default status for kegs that are at a customer location. Updates automatically when delivered.
  • Out for Delivery/Assigned/Returning: The status for kegs that are in process with customers. Updated automatically when containers are assigned.
  • House Use: Kegs that are internally on-tap or on standby for tapping in-house. May be restricted to select the status from a particular pool of product.
  • Partial Fill or ‘Manual Fill’ or Other?: This is for kegs and containers that get some product that is not otherwise tracked and may not fill the container. For example, on every packaging we usually end with a partial fill of a keg that can go to House Use, similarly our small pilot batches do not get tracked for use and our regulatory agency provides a legal exception for this. The product uses a container, the container is dirty and will need cleaned etc, the product may or may not exist in Breww but the container status will still need to be tracked until it is cleaned and ready for filling again.

Independent status options that are not dependent upon the above:

  • Inspection/Service required: Maybe one status, ideally two separate status’s. An empty or full keg can be flagged with the status.
  • Remove from Service: Every time a keg is scanned it would raise an alarm to the user that this keg should be removed from service. Useful for culling out End-Of-Life or Scheduled-For-Maintenance or especially, Return-To-Rental-Company kegs
  • Last Inspected: A record created at an inspection point on a container. Also includes type of inspection (Visual, ATP, Pressure, & User Defined) and Actions Taken, minimally a comment field. Automatically includes the user name, time and date.

Locations: With each of the status’s above, a container may have a different default location. For example, most breweries have a location for returned kegs ready (Empty-Dirty) to be be cleaned, clean-and-empty kegs and of course filled product is already location assigned. When a keg is assigned one of the above status’s, its location defaults to the appropriate location unless otherwise manually over-ruled by the user. CO2 tanks and pumps get returned from customers to the product team for cleaning and then get assigned to the taproom for customer rentals. All this can be done by setting up default locations for containers that are dependent upon the container status

These status options and the container locations should be available to the data-import of containers.

Likewise a means to bulk-update the status of the containers is required, with default logic options such as ‘assign containers to their default locations on status update’.

Containers that are already at customers would have their status set to ‘At Customer’ and their location would not change.

Cleaning: When kegs are cleaned, a user can bulk scan one or more kegs and change their status from Empty-Dirty to Empty-Clean and confirm a location change to the default location for containers of this status.

Note that cleaning records for keg cleaning should be associated with the Keg Cleaner Equipment, not the keg, except that this functionality includes the ability to perform an inspection that can cover any inspectable container.

An option to print labels showing status may be desirable for some users. The scope of this is not covered here except that the ability to print ‘x’ number of labels that show the cleaning date and who cleaned them would be great. For example, we put a bunch of of kegs onto a pallet after cleaning them and then give them a light stretch-wrap for easy forklift use. We would like to be able to slap a label on the pallet showing the status and date of cleaning of the items on the pallet. No need to over-think this with to much detail such as ‘which containers are on which pallet and how many’, just the ability to print a label we can slap on any set of cleaned kegs would work.

SCANNING FUNCTIONALITY (Maybe this is independent as it has great value even without the above, but is required with the above functionality improvements)

  1. We should be able to walk up to any container logged in the Breww system, scan it and see its status and, depending on user permissions, its inspection or service and cleaning history. This should be easy to access from the phone app.

  2. This ability would be the entry point to change the status of one or more kegs at once (from Empty-Dirty to Empty-Clean for example) and the associated container location.

  3. User permissions for container status updates should be granular: The user permission for updating ‘Inspection/Service Required’ is independent of the permission to change cleaning status or packaging status or to manually fill a container or to declare a container ‘empty-dirty’ or to see the service and cleaning history.

4 Likes

Thanks for all of the information here, Ian. This is extremely helpful :pray:

Hi. New to the Breww community here and wrapping my head around the software.

I just wanted to check in to see if there was any progress on adding a “dirty/empty” status for kegs.

Thanks in advance.

Welcome to Breww, Alex.

There is not yet any progress on this request. Whenever there is an update on a request, we always post it on the thread (and mark it as complete if it’s fully implemented).

If this request would be helpful for you, please vote for it using the button in the top-left. Thank you.

Thanks for the quick response. I’m curious how folks are working around making a distinction between dirty empty kegs and those that are clean and ready to fill.

From my limited time with the software it seems maybe having a sub location in the brewery where dirty empties are returned then moving them to a clean keg storage location after cleaning may be the best route?

What I would love is to be able to look at the first Containers Tracking dashboard and see the number In Trade, Filled, Dirty and Ready To Fill at a glance. It seems if I were to use the work around I mentioned above that I would need to create a filter on the containers list in order to see those numbers. Am I correct in that assumption?

Thanks Alex, yes, that’s a good solution until for now.

If you create filtered container lists, you can also save those lists with a name to allow you to quickly pick the filtered list, rather than re-creating the filter each time.

It’s also possible to use the Raw Data Explorer report to build a custom report that shows the quantity of empty containers at each location. Here’s an example share code (see help guide on how to use) to get you started:

--- BEGIN BREWW RDE SHARE CODE ---
eyJiYXNlX2RhdGFfY29kZSI6ImNvbnRhaW5lcnMiLCJmaWVsZHNfdG9fdmlldyI6Imdyb3VwX2J5KHR5cGUubmFtZSksIGdyb3VwX2J5KGN1cnJlbnRfbG9jYXRpb24uc2l0ZS5uYW1lKSwgZ3JvdXBfYnkoY3VycmVudF9sb2NhdGlvbi5uYW1lKSwgY291bnQoY29kZSl8c29ydF9ieTpjb3VudChjb2RlKTpkZXNjIiwiYnJld3dxbF9maWx0ZXIiOiJlbXB0eV9hdF9icmV3ZXJ5ID0gVHJ1ZSBhbmQgbWlzc2luZyA9IEZhbHNlIn0=
--- END BREWW RDE SHARE CODE ---

thanks. The saved lists are helpful. I suppose the drawback of the approach I outlined is that I don’t quickly see the totals. As in I can’t at a glance see 20 empty dirty / 10 empty clean. I have to scroll to the bottom of the filtered view and get the total from the results. Unless I’m missing something?

The Raw Data Explorer report share code that I sent should give you total quantities by location. Again this can be saved as a custom report so you can see a total per-location in just a couple of clicks.

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Thanks I get it now! I see how this can work well for us for the time being.

1 Like